Hot from an exchange with a tolerant Christian, Bill took to his blog to vent in How Not To Think (and Do Christianity). He rails:
I have come to realise it is far easier to document cases of brainless idiocy than it is to teach good thinking and reasoning skills.It turns out the source of "brainless idiocy" is someone who has the temerity to say to Bill that homosexuality really isn't a big deal and worth getting upset about. After a brief exchange, Bill realised he had failed to make this human being see the light and dedicate his whole purpose to the fear and loathing and smearing of gay people. Says poor old Bill,
At this point I realised that I was dealing with trolls, or believers so ignorant and sucked into the world, that I was just wasting my time.Because anyone who dares to disagree with Bill, about anything, is a "brainless idiot" or a "troll". Sheesh, the arrogance of this guy.
In the comments, David Agnes inadvertently hits the hornets' nest:
The truth is, Bill, I think most people, especially those under the age of 30, see homosexuality as a non-issue.He's right. That is true. Poll after poll show that homophobic attitudes are far more prevalent in the 60+ generations in Western countries, and, whilst still problematic, comparatively negligible in under 30s. It's a simple statement of fact!
It is, however, a fact Muehlenberg has no wish to hear, less still to face.
You'll notice that Muehlenberg never, ever speaks courteously to anyone who i) disagrees with him or ii) presents an awkward truth. He starts his reply parroting like a petulant schoolboy:
The truth is, David, God is always right and the crowd is usually always wrong.This is a very revealing comment. Since Bill thinks he's the big expert on "god" and what "god" wants, what he really means is that he is always right and everyone else wrong (unless they agree with him).
Bill's unpleasantness (would it kill him to be courteous?) doesn't end there. He goes on to make a bizarre analogy to slavery (WTF?) and then says:
If you want to actually learn a bit about homosexuality, instead of parroting the world’s lousy counsel, you might start doing some careful reading here. My book could be a starting place.So here we have the crux of the matter: nobody is entitled to an opinion on homosexuality until they have read Bill's book, and until they agree with his every word!
It must really, really pain someone of Bill's astounding arrogance that his "book" has been almost entirely ignored. It's his life's work, his magnum opus, and the response has been a massive shrug of the shoulders, tumbleweeds, and crickets chirping. It must have been a terrible blow to his massive ego. Still, the next work of homophobic propaganda will be a bestseller, eh, Bill?
A peculiar creature, and a regular poster on CultureWatch, then weighs in, a certain Joel van der Horst:
If the average Australian ever knew any gay men (which I do having once identified as gay) they’d realise how shallow, petulant, bigoted, unhealthy, and vacuous they are. Will and Grace is a deliberately false representation of the average gay person, the fact is the prime cause of the high suicide rate amongst young gay and lesbian people in Australia are how they are treated by other gay men and women.What utter rubbish. The high suicide rate amongst gay teens is almost entirely down to rejection and bigotry from parents who place their own idiotic superstitions above the health and happiness of their children. Still, don't let facts get in the way, Joel. This guy thinks all gay people without exception are evil, and apparently he "used to be" gay. I bet he's the "ex-gay" that Muehlenberg regularly touts as "proof" that sexuality (or rather, only ever homosexuality) is a "choice".
Here's a picture of our Joel:
Now I'm not going to be cruel, but he looks not a million miles from being a mini-Bill Muehlenberg. It's not too big a leap of the imagination to understand why he doesn't get much cock and finds life easier lying to himself whilst surrounded by the happy-clappy brigade who are more than happy to back up his delusions. "Look, this guy said three hail marys and he's no longer gay. Praise Jesus! Hallelujah!" Seriously - how deluded would you have to be?
Anyway, I'm getting off track. Joel goes on:
I really care for my gay friends, and it saddens me how much emotional, mental, and physical turmoil they suffer as a result of choosing to practice such unhealthy behaviour.Riiiiight. Gay friends. Joel, if you had any friends (gay or otherwise), they'd tell you that sexuality isn't a choice. You can keep deluding yourself if you wish, but all you're doing is lashing out at those who don't share your self-delusion that sexuality can be "chosen". Be honest, you don't have any friends outside of the pensioners and freaks you go to church with, do you?
As for the statement about “winning the argument” Bill already has… the fact that he cops abuse just for presenting the facts demonstrates that Christophobic, militant gay activists and other secular bigots have no intellectual case to present in favour of their position.Sure, Joel. Anyone who is happy to share society with gay people and grant them equal rights and opportunities is clearly driven by "Christophobia". Keep massaging your bruised ego. Nice that Bill has "won" the argument. That would clearly explain why governments in the western world are increasingly extending equality legislation in favour of their LGBT citizens. We can all hope that Bill keeps on "winning" at this speed.
Agnes then attempts a response, pointing out to Joel that if his figure of 2% for the gay population is true, then if people know more than 50 other folk, they're likely to know a gay person. The sheer temerity of Agnes not following up with offers to publically self-flagellate and admit the righteousness of Muehlenberg is enough to push dear old Bill ever closer to his inevitable cardiac arrest. Agnes also asks pertinent questions:
Do you want to see homosexuality decriminalised? Do you acknowledge that there have and always will be gay people in society?Does he mean "recriminalised"? It would be interesting to hear Bill answer those questions. But by now Bill is just throwing all of his toys out of the pram.
I question whether I can take your remarks too seriously. But if you are asking more than just rhetorical questions here, I repeat my advice: get my book (or one like it) and read it carefully. When you have done that, come back here if you want more discussion. But the fact that you now seem so utterly clueless as to both your own faith and the militant homosexual agenda shows us that you need to start properly educating yourself – and soon.That's Agnes told. Muehlenberg's quite the charmer, isn't he?
What's interesting is that Muehlenberg doesn't answer his (not remotely rhetorical) questions. In fact, whenever he's put on the spot about what exactly his gay-hate "ministry" aims to achieve, he evades. Does he want to see homosexuality criminalised? Would he support the stoning to death of gay people? He states that he doesn't think gay people are entitled to any rights or legal protection, but does that extend to the right to life? And what is his purpose in keeping his gay-hate blog, or is it just to vent his strange obsession and psychosis with other people's private lives?
Joel then reappears and confirms what we all know: homophobia is a direct result of ignorance.
The gay community like all minority communities congregate in certain locales within inner-city suburb, in Melbourne predominantly in Prahran, Brunswick and East St Kilda… unless a person lives, or works within the municipalities of these townships one is unlikely to know personally any gay people.What absolute twaddle. Gay people are born and bred all over every country, even if they may later in life move to a city (like a lot of other people). But Joel is inadvertently admitting that homophobia is fear of the unknown.
Questioning the legitimacy of the less than 2% figure for Australians who identify as gay and Lesbian does you no favours David.Um, I've re-read Agnes' comments, and he doesn't question this, but as Joel and Bill demonstrate, Christians never let the facts get in the way of a good two-minutes' hate.
The fact that you don’t this demonstrates to all of Bill’s readers not only your ignorance, but your secular bigotry.Not sure that sentence even makes sense, Joel; but Bill is happy for Joel to call Agnes a "bigot" after two very tame comments. Remarkable. Yet Bill insists that it's only the "other side" who go in for "ad hominems" and "mud-slinging". Bill is quite happy for commentators who don't entirely agree with him to be called a "bigot".
What a nest of hypocrites.
Joel then says,
I don’t know that I was characterising gay people negatively, I was challenging your opinion that meeting a gay person would change an individuals ideas about the gay people…it won’t.Let's remind ourselves of how he talks about all gay people:
If the average Australian ever knew any gay men (which I do having once identified as gay) they’d realise how shallow, petulant, bigoted, unhealthy, and vacuous they are.Really, Joel? Not characterising them negatively? You fucking liar.
But Joel has a question:
what do you think you are going to achieve by throwing your gay lobby sloganeering, fact-free misinformation around Bill’s website??In other words, how dare someone come along and question the infallible Bill Muehlenberg?
The sanctimonious Vic Trudeau weighs in:
When you’re hard pressed on every side, isn’t it wonderful the way others are there to take up the fight? Good on ya, Joel!Only Joel's not there to hear the praise. He's too busy rimming Bill Muehlenberg. What remarkable teamwork. Somebody comes along with awkward questions. They evade them all and call the questioner a bigot and an idiot, and then slap themselves on the back for a job well done in protecting their nasty delusions.
Can anyone think of a single pleasant or courteous Culturewatch regular?
It's little wonder Xtianity is rapidly becoming the preserve of freaks and weirdoes, and ordinary people are reaching out with compassion to their LGBT brothers and sisters. Xtians, your inherent nastiness is winning the culture "war" for us. Keep up the good work. And don't have a stroke...